Thursday, November 19, 2009

New END:CIV Clips

New END:CIV Clips

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:29:18 -0500
R403867
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

Premise One: Civilization is not and can never be sustainable. This is especially true for industrial civilization.

I’m having a hard time agreeing with Jensen’s first premise. He doesn’t seem like a very imaginative guy.

I mean, what about highly advanced aliens with more advanced energy sources than earth humans are currently using? They’re most likely out there somewhere enjoying their civilizations just fine. To say civilization can never be sustainable is very small-minded and negative considering the vast mysteries of the universe we’ve yet to discover and/or utilize to assist in our lives.

Perhaps there are suppressed energy sources right here right now on this planet that could really help humanity out. Pursuing that seems much more reasonable than promoting the end of civilization.


R403878
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

fuck yeah… nice!...

what about highly advanced aliens with more advanced…

one of the best critiques of ET influences can be found in this fictional story...


R403879
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

that’s the very last chapter, btw. for the whole book online, which you can easily read in one sitting, click here...


R403880
3 weeks ago
Trainspotter

For phucks sake Floyd….

I’ve learned many interesting things following your posts. I respect your interest in topics others like to insult you for, and I respect the fact that, for the most part, you take the abuse well. But that said, you are really pushing the boundaries here.

Have you read Jensen’s book? Do you have something to contribute to the debate? It is too easy to dismissively question his imagination in a single sentence. You’re holding him to account for not taking futuristic alien technology into account? Give us a break.

You are in your element promoting concepts that push the boundaries of mainstream thinking. Here however you seem to be engaged in intentional provocation. This is unfortunate, and not very imaginative at that – no offense.


R403885
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

Have you read Jensen’s book?

Nope, but I’ve seen videos of that environmentalist snob and I don’t like him.

Do you have something to contribute to the debate?

Yeah, to state that civilization can NEVER be sustainable is something I strongly disagree with.

You’re holding him to account for not taking futuristic alien technology into account? Give us a break.

Well, I have a problem with his reasoning. Seems like he wants to reduce the standard of living globally, just like some elites do, in order to supposedly save us and the planet. I don’t buy shit like that. If he loves the idea of being more primitive and closer to nature then he should go live in Africa without electricity and see how great it is, but quit pushing what amounts to mass murder and miserable living conditions as some kind of solution.

He wants to go backwards, just like in that piece pigboy linked to about how the answer is for humans to basically evolve into apes. No, I want to go in the other direction. I want humans to take greater responsibility and live more independently than they currently are and to figure out great new ways of doing it. We have so much potential for greatness but we are being manipulated and held back from that intentionally.


R403887
3 weeks ago
Trainspotter

Read the book Floyd. Really.
...problem with his reasoning. Read the book, take in the scope of his reasoning, argue from there.
Seems like… Don’t make harsh assertions and then back them up this way, not if you want to be taken seriously. Think of it as “know thine enemy” if you like.
..environmentalist snob.. That’s your own presumptions coming into play, and sure, he’s got a bit of an air about him. He’s not writing books and talking his talk because he’s a “snob” – he’s scared out of his fucking mind. As are many of us.
..pigboy.. Enough already. This one is getting you nowhere.

Read it Floyd, it won’t kill you.


R403888
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

and Jensen promotes the bombing of infrastructure as some sort of a step in the right direction doesn’t he?


R403889
3 weeks ago
Trainspotter

and Jensen promotes the bombing of infrastructure as some sort of a step in the right direction doesn’t he?

Yes, he does. And if you read the book you’ll come to an understanding of why he feels that way. You may not agree with him, but you will understand. Then you can argue from more solid ground if/as required. Otherwise you risk casually dismissing the full scope of a broad perspective based on a simple factoid or two here and there and sounding about as thoughtful as Fox News does abusing carefully selected soundbites.


R403890
3 weeks ago
Trainspotter

END:CIV is a film that examines our culture’s addiction to systematic violence and environmental exploitation, and probes the resulting epidemic of poisoned landscapes and shell-shocked nations. Based in part on Endgame, the best-selling book by Derrick Jensen, END:CIV asks: “If your homeland was invaded by aliens who cut down the forests, poisoned the water and air, and contaminated the food supply, would you resist?”

Landscapes not poisoned?
Nations not shell shocked?
Air, water and food supply not poisoned?

Surprised that some come to radical conclusions? C’mon now…

Human is as human does.


R403891
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

don’t forget to post these vids to GUN, stim!


R403893
3 weeks ago
mancer

I am, mostly, with Floyd on this issue.

You can’t, and won’t, stop civilisation.

To devolve back to apes is wrong. To evolve to beings of better awareness and responsibility is the better choice.

Ok, we humans do some things wrong (and there maybe too many of us), but to sit in a paddock chewing on the grass just isn’t enough (for me).

I don’t want to lose the arts and sciences. I don’t want to be poorly educated, praying to some fantasy sungod.

I want corrupt officials jailed, I want clean energy.

Solve those two issues, then evolve, don’t devolve.


R403895
3 weeks ago
Trainspotter

You can’t, and won’t, stop civilisation.

I, mostly, agree with you. I take issue with Jensen on a number of levels. I do however give some credence to the notion that civilisation, as we know it, may just stop itself, if we aren’t able to “evolve”, as you say.

Jensen defines civilisation and then goes on to state that it is unsustainable, as he defines it. His definition is hard to dismiss, as is the notion that our current path is unsustainable. Evolution is left out of the argument. Ours to embrace? Certainly. But if we don’t evolve somehow, and quickly, then it isn’t hard to appreciate the need to tear down some dams, for a start.


R403896
3 weeks ago
remarcus

i think jensen states most accurately in ‘the culture of makebelieve” an argument thats irrefutable: that any feeling of disconnect toward your world and environment is the essential issue of human self hatred and contempt for all that is outside its excuses.


R403897
3 weeks ago
remarcus

we are the top of the food chain, however much we admit it

its a responsibility. we are fucking it up


R403898
3 weeks ago
aganunitsi

I think that to say humanity can’t find new ways to devour everything around it to either the point of FUBAR or spreading it’s wretch to other planets is highly unimaginative. For fuck’s sake we have no idea how big a fuckup superior fuckups have made considering the vast mysteries of fuckupery.

Humanity 1609

Humanity today


R403899
3 weeks ago
aganunitsi

I mean come on, destroy one lousy planet?! There could be superior alien races who are fucking up entire galaxies right now.


R403900
3 weeks ago
remarcus

shut up human, shouldnt you be climbing trees?


R403910
3 weeks ago
remarcus

10, btw


R403924
3 weeks ago
Trainspotter

Galactic Fuckupery!

I love that word…


R403929
3 weeks ago
Livingston

I’m having a hard time agreeing with Jensen’s first premise. He doesn’t seem like a very imaginative guy.

that’s because you’re a close-minded ignorant delusional dolt. try reading jensen before you discuss him.

I mean, what about highly advanced aliens with more advanced energy sources than earth humans are currently using? They’re most likely out there somewhere enjoying their civilizations just fine. To say civilization can never be sustainable is very small-minded and negative considering the vast mysteries of the universe we’ve yet to discover and/or utilize to assist in our lives.

Perhaps there are suppressed energy sources right here right now on this planet that could really help humanity out. Pursuing that seems much more reasonable than promoting the end of civilization.

i… i… can’t even grasp your fucked up mentality… incredible…

what about aliens?
have you ever seen aliens froid?

hey what about the fact that your goverment – the US gov – the system YOU ARE CURRENTLY SUPPORTING AND FUNDING is engaged in endless wars to pillage the last bits of oil from the planet? oh, wait, that’s not a real concern is it? cuz then if you were actually a decent person you would be motivated to do some thing instead of worrying about the aliens and reptile creatures.

hierarchy and civilization are not compatible with the earth systems or human ontogeny – it doesn’t matter what energy source is used – if humans continue using energy to expand, colonize, and develop in the past paradigm they will run into other material shortages and social and environmental barriers.

the end of civilization is not the end of complex societies. cultural evolution (like all dissipative systems) progresses at an extraordinary rate during times of high selective pressure: think punctuated equilibrium at the cultural level within decades – we are already seeing the rapid rise of intentional/conscious communities here in Costa Rica. this will be quite “catchy” as economic collapse, fascism, and the decline of nation-state power continues to spread.

grow your own food
make your own energy
provide for your friends and loved ones
read
think
plan
network
share
improvise munitions

Post Modified: 10/28/09 09:44:53

R403930
3 weeks ago
Livingston

and Jensen promotes the bombing of infrastructure as some sort of a step in the right direction doesn’t he?

he promotes counter violence against the system.

floyd, deep breath here big boy, time to grow up quick like.

YOU AND EVERYONE WHO PAYS TAXES AND RELIES ON THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY SUPPORTS THE BOMBING OF INFRASTRUCTURE

its just that the infrastructure you people bomb is in other nation-states.


R403931
3 weeks ago
Livingston

please, correct me if im wrong here, with evidence

spanks!


R403935
3 weeks ago
xenonix

i’m just amazed at the aerial view of manhattan, circa 1609…who knew pilgrim satellites were so advanced?


R403937
3 weeks ago
ill_logik

they weren’t, they stole them from the injins.


R403938
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

that’s because you’re a close-minded ignorant delusional dolt. try reading jensen before you discuss him.

alrighty then.

so I’m not entitled to comment on his list of premises until I read a book of his?

hey what about the fact that your goverment – the US gov – the system YOU ARE CURRENTLY SUPPORTING AND FUNDING is engaged in endless wars to pillage the last bits of oil from the planet? oh, wait, that’s not a real concern is it? cuz then if you were actually a decent person you would be motivated to do some thing instead of worrying about the aliens and reptile creatures.

Admiral cherry picker, there may be something wrong with your brain. Perhaps your funding is clouding your objective logic, or maybe you just hate me because I’ve exposed you as the lying fraud that you are. anyhoo, I am very against many of the current policies of the U.S. government. I’ve probably blogged more Alex Jones material on this site than anyone else, but all that vanishes from your mind because you want to smear me because I also blog about aliens. you’re really hung up on the alien overlord thing. whether that is real or not, it is the authoritative agenda removing our rights that is to be resisted first and foremost, no matter who is behind it.

So you are convinced that this planet is running out of oil aren’t you? You’ve swallowed that hook line and stinker just like the man-made global warming lie.

Lindsey Williams paints a very different picture of the oil situation:

Lindsey Williams talks about his first hand knowledge of Alaskan oil reserves larger than any on earth. And he talks about how the oil companies and U.S. government won’t send it through the pipeline for U.S. citizens to use.

hierarchy and civilization are not compatible with the earth systems or human ontogeny – it doesn’t matter what energy source is used – if humans continue using energy to expand, colonize, and develop in the past paradigm they will run into other material shortages and social and environmental barriers.

Cite plz. Oh wait that’s just envirotard speculation….your specialty!

he promotes counter violence against the system.

here we go….rationalizing violence. this type of logic is something I am very against. talk about a slippery fucking slope. yeah uh, teh system is violent so therefore counter violence is ok….....horseshit!! you losers that promote violence as some kind of solution make me sick. you are equating self-defense with bombings and arson and petty street violence. very shallow. not wise at all.

YOU AND EVERYONE WHO PAYS TAXES AND RELIES ON THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY SUPPORTS THE BOMBING OF INFRASTRUCTURE
its just that the infrastructure you people bomb is in other nation-states.

many Americans are resisting the wars the U.S. government starts, in case you hadn’t noticed. It’s an ongoing struggle and not so simple as you make it out to be.


R403943
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

I’ve probably blogged more Alex Jones material on this site than anyone else

i like how you say that as if it’s a good thing or somehow lends itself to your credibility

here we go….rationalizing violence.

i’m sure once ol’ Alex Jones declares that it’s time to take up arms against the Obama “coup”, you will change your tune.


R403944
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

i like how you say that as if it’s a good thing or somehow lends itself to your credibility

No you dumb simpleton, it is my response to Livingston’s accusation that I am not concerned about parapolitical corruption. He acts like I’m only interested in aliens. Do you think Alex Jones is not fighting corrupt policies Shifty? You idiots that smear Alex Jones are pathetic. Alex is the leading force in the alternative media and is having an enormous impact.

i’m sure once ol’ Alex Jones declares that it’s time to take up arms against the Obama “coup”, you will change your tune.

I don’t think so pigboy.

Post Modified: 10/28/09 12:51:21

R403945
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

You idiots that smear Alex Jones are pathetic.

Retaliate Against Alex Jones’ Treacherous Psychological Warfare!

I don’t think so

what do you not think? that AJ will call for armed revolt or that you will most likely follow along when he does?

or do you think the focus on gun ownership rights is about hunting deer with assault rifles and hand guns?


R403946
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

Retaliate Against Alex Jones’ Treacherous Psychological Warfare!

Yes, this is just the type of thing I’m referring to.

what do you not think? that AJ will call for armed revolt or that you will most likely follow along when he does?

I don’t think he will and I will not follow if he does.

or do you think the focus on gun ownership rights is about hunting deer with assault rifles and hand guns?

I think it’s about self-defense, not armed revolt.


R403947
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

I don’t think he will and I will not follow if he does.

really? you don’t support armed resistance against tyranny? you must hate your so-called “Founding Fathers” then, and oppose what they did…

I think it’s about self-defense, not armed revolt.

yeah? and what about when your tyrannical government becomes a threat to your well-being? true armed revolt is always an act of self-defense. duh.


R403948
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

Yes, this is just the type of thing I’m referring to.

so i suppose you can refute the accusations in that post and do so with credible source citations and well-reasoned arguments.

oh wait…


R403950
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

man you are so hideous.

Taking up arms against others is a very serious issue and can lead to terrible consequences. You have very sloppy logic and continually promote violence and arson, and whether intentionally or not you are operating in direct contradiction to what is good for the United States and free humanity with your disgusting promotion of violent acts.


R403951
3 weeks ago
sisyphus

five for stim’s vids and everyone’s posts (except floid and mancer, who are dumb).


R403952
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

so i suppose you can refute the accusations in that post and do so with credible source citations and well-reasoned arguments.

you tough anarchists sure can be crybabies.


R403953
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

five for stim’s vids and everyone’s posts (except floid and mancer, who are dumb).

so you want civilization to end sisyphus?


R403954
3 weeks ago
sisyphus

whether intentionally or not you are operating in direct contradiction to what is good for the United States

since the united states is behind, or at least complicit in aiding, most of the mass murder in the world, what is good for the u.s. is bad. Therefore, what is bad for the u.s. is good for the rest of us and the biosphere, dumbass.


R403955
3 weeks ago
sisyphus

so you want civilization to end sisyphus?

It’s not relevant what I want since our civilization will eventually collapse. They always do.


R403956
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

since the united states is behind, or at least complicit in aiding, most of the mass murder in the world, what is good for the u.s. is bad. Therefore, what is bad for the u.s. is good for the rest of us and the biosphere, dumbass.

not very good logic. are you referring to the united states as the people who live in the country or those who control the government or the system that was originally set up in this country?


R403957
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

It’s not relevant what I want since our civilization will eventually collapse. They always do.

so every civilization will always collapse everywhere forever. ok. you’re really smart.


R403958
3 weeks ago
sisyphus

so every civilization will always collapse everywhere forever

yes. It’s a simple corollary to the very definition of civilization (not the stupid Merriam Webster one, which is meaningless). Go read something on the topic instead of spouting off bullshit.


R403962
3 weeks ago
aganunitsi

Civilization is run by psychopaths at best and reptilians at worst. They are planning a massive depopulation of the earth through global chemical warfare (vaccines, chemtrails). They control all major banks and military organizations. They are not all Jews, but a surprisingly large number at the top are coincidentally Jewish (I’m just sayin’...). I could go on and on about suspiciously powerful Jews; still, please don’t be ignorant and go hatin’ on Jews. Actually, don’t go hatin’ on anybody because violence is a serious business and yes I know I’m preachin’ of an imminent war by the few against the rest of humanity but that doesn’t mean I want you to go gettin’ violent against the people I just called psychopathic/inhuman and about to unleash death on billions. Despite the global Illuminati pulling the strings I think this civilization is sustainable and I’m sure all of the above will be fixed just as soon as the Tea Parties and Alex Jones turn this country around.

Post Modified: 10/28/09 15:03:36

R403963
3 weeks ago
Truthcansuk

Sisy – Go read something on the topic instead of spouting off bullshit.


R403965
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

You have very sloppy logic

coming from someone who’s process of logic leads them to conclude extratrerrestrials or extradimensionals are in charge of our world, that’s a classic statement.

continually promote violence and arson

cite plz, particularly on the account of arson.

don’t make accusations if you cannot back them up.

and no, posting stories about arsons is not tantamount to promoting arson.


R403966
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

R403967
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

this one comes to mind

again:

posting stories about arsons is not tantamount to promoting arson.

also, to clarify my position (and since you cannot, to cite something i actually said rather than making assumptions based on re-posts that i didn’t write), here’s an excerpt from my opening statement in Revolution in Theory & Praxis [Part I]:

Regarding potentially violent/harmful actions, I am not in favor of or comfortable with intimidation/scare tactics such as letter bombing and arson of residences, though I recognize them to be acts of desperation in response to a desperate situation. My opinion is that there are many more tactically and strategically effective ways to achieve the goal of ending the destruction of the planet, ways that do not risk harming human life. The inanimate infrastructure of the death machine is replete with bottlenecks and fulcrum points that can be occupied or dismantled by the people themselves, decommissioning them in an intelligent manner that avoids the risk of harm to life.

Tactics such as letter bombing and the arson or firebombing of homes are intended to scare scientists into not participating in such cruelty towards animals, or to cause corporate executives to divest from corporations that profit from the torture of animals (such as HLS). While the SHAC model has proven that such tactics of harassment can be effective in causing divestment, etc., it remains my opinion that these issues are systemic, rather than housed within specific people or corporations. Just as removing politicians will not stop the system that will simply replace them with new politicians, removing scientists and corporate execs will not stop the system that will simply replace them with new scientists and execs. It is the system itself that must be dismantled.

Therefore, I am not in favor of targeting/harming human beings. This position is not so much because I believe human lives are worth more than non-humans, but simply because I think it is strategically & tactically less effective than some of our other options. I do not, however, denounce the actions of those who have used letter bombs or firebombed homes, and stand on the record of the earth and animal liberation movements of having never harmed a human being in the process of their actions. Several actions have come a little too close for comfort, but the record stands. While I do not condemn them, I do not find the action to be the most tactically effective. Their rage would have been better directed at a lab containing years of research. Burn the papers and use magnets to wipe the computers.

I am in favor of armed resistance against exploitation and oppression and in self-defense, including defense of one’s land base (by means of well-planned sabotage, arson, and property destruction, as well as means such as occupations, barricades, blockades, and yes, even boycotts, protests, and other means of civil disobedience and direct action), while avoiding use of arms and infliction of harm on humans and non-humans alike, not “at all costs,” but rather, as much as possible without in doing so becoming complicit through inaction. If your intent is to cause me harm or destroy the land base upon which I depend for life, I’ll defend myself, and my home, with ferocity and vengeance. But as long as other means are available to me to achieve my goals and objectives, I will pursue those other means.

Post Modified: 10/28/09 15:30:22

R403968
3 weeks ago
Truthcansuk

Shift – This position is not so much because I believe human lives are worth more than non-humans…

This is still silly. I consider you to be worth far more than a goldfish, Shifty.

Maybe not an otter. But for sure you beat out snails and emus. SUCK IT, EMUS!


R403969
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

while species tend to have a sentimental attachment to their own, which is in fact a mechanism of survival, ecosystemically and biologically human beings (at least, if we were living in balance and within a sustainable ecosystemic niche) are no more important than gold fish in the web of life (and arguably gold fish are far more in tune with their natural niche [despite domestication by humans] and are doing their job in the ecosystem whereas we’re not doing our and have in fact declared war on the natural order of the world).


R403970
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

if you were to use ecosystemic parameters to measure the importance of species in the web of life, beings such as phytoplankton and bacteria could be argued to be far more important that we are, though i might disagree on the basis of the fact that even if one species that feeds or decomposes another seems to play a larger and more keystone ecosystemic role, they themselves actually depend on the species that they feed or feed on, even if that species seems to have a less vital role in the organic economy.

Post Modified: 10/28/09 15:53:21

R403971
3 weeks ago
aganunitsi

Humans are the most important because so far we’re the only ones that can look around and figure out what’s going on. No other species has the ability to see into the future like we do (and thus shape/change the future).


R403972
3 weeks ago
Truthcansuk

if you were to use ecosystemic parameters to measure the importance of species in the web of life…

And if you were to use a value system based upon penis size, horses and whales would crush us.

Floyd would be owned by a family of lemurs… tiny, tiny lemurs…

On Edit: That’s right, A PENIS JOKE AT FLOYD’S EXPENSE! IN YOUR FACE, ‘JOKES IN GOOD TASTE’ NAZI’S!!!

Post Modified: 10/28/09 16:06:18

R403973
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

Humans are the most important because so far we’re the only ones that can look around and figure out what’s going on. No other species has the ability to see into the future like we do (and thus shape/change the future).

i suggest you look into behavioral zoology. we’re far from the only ones that exhibit those qualities.

in fact, every such qualification that’s been used in the past to categorize human beings as somehow different and thus more important than other species has been debunked and shown to be qualities of many other species.

besides, we can’t do many things that other species can do, so saying that just because humans do things that other animals don’t makes us more important is an illogical assertion.

Post Modified: 10/28/09 16:11:34

R403974
3 weeks ago
Livingston

Perhaps your funding is clouding your objective logic, or maybe you just hate me because I’ve exposed you as the lying fraud that you are.

yes, good jerb there froid… please tell the folks at home what i have done with all that funding.

you’ve done your research right? you a jernalist right?

here’s a couple leads, fuckwit:
5,000 dollars – the cottonwood foundation
10,000 dollars – the atmosphere conservancy
and my real name is RYAN KING
now go find out what i have done with my funding and please try to explain how evil it was of me to teach kids in Costa Rica about the environment, global change and how to make biodiesel from WVO.

let’s hear it shithead.

the most i have made in the last few years from science grants is $500 a month and i haven’t paid a fucking cent in taxes to the US in 6 + years

many Americans are resisting the wars the U.S. government starts, in case you hadn’t noticed. It’s an ongoing struggle and not so simple as you make it out to be.

you are a fucking joke and you avoided responding.

you pay for war. face it. grow the fuck up you chump kid. travel outside your moms basement. you got a problem with the elites? ever visited the 3rd world kid? ever tried to help people living in the gutters of the countries your nation has driven into poverty?

do you get it yet bro? you are the elite. you sit on a computer and in between jerk off sessions you bitch about things you have no clue about. you think you knwo shit about the scientists trying to protect what little is left of the environment? cmon, fuckwit, go interview em. go talk to some environmental scientists who are watching what industrial civilization has done to nature and come back and tell GNN what you learnt, you fuckwit little chump kid.


R403975
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

And if you were to use a value system based upon penis size, horses and whales would crush us.

only the world is dictated by ecosystemic parameters and limits, not penile ones.


R403976
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

you pay for war. face it. grow the fuck up you chump kid. travel outside your moms basement. you got a problem with the elites? ever visited the 3rd world kid? ever tried to help people living in the gutters of the countries your nation has driven into poverty?

hey shitforbrains, quit blaming me for injustices done in the world. you think I agree with that kind of shit? so I’m to fucking blame because I pay taxes? jesus christ you are pathetic.


R403977
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

go talk to some environmental scientists who are watching what industrial civilization has done to nature and come back and tell GNN what you learnt, you fuckwit little chump kid.

how about this, if a scientist you think is saying something important is speaking in Austin, let me knwo and I’ll go film the presentation and put it on the web. I’ve videotaped quite a few lectures and it’s easy for me to do.

better yet, how about you come speak in Austin and I’ll film you. it could be a GNN masterpiece!


R403978
3 weeks ago
aganunitsi

i suggest you look into behavioral zoology. we’re far from the only ones that exhibit those qualities. in fact, every such qualification that’s been used in the past to categorize human beings as somehow different and thus more important than other species has been debunked and shown to be qualities of many other species.

Jesus H. Christ, Shifty, don’t be such a fucking knob. Humbletard much? Claiming that any other species can see and predict the future on any order of magnitude that even remotely approaches that of Homo sapiens is as fanciful as claiming that alien civilizations are proof that our civilization is sustainable. What other species knows that the sun is a mass of gases that is going to burn out, ending life on earth (phytoplankton and all)? Is that in a behavioral zoology study that I missed?

Nature made us what we are – do your fucking job and think. We can’t destroy anything that wasn’t going to be destroyed eventually. Before us, global extinction was inevitable. Now it’s just likely.

Post Modified: 10/28/09 18:28:51

R403979
3 weeks ago
Ruff_Shot

Truth – But for sure you beat out snails and emus. SUCK IT, EMUS!


Yes, I heard what Truthcansuk said about emus on GNN. I just want to say to him, and all humans really, that we the emus will be sucking…each tasty morsel from their charred remains when civilization dies. The emus will have the last belly full laugh…count on it, Mr. Truthcansuk!.

When interviewed about TCS’s comment – the Emu above, predictably, spit in my face. They really do not like humans.


R403980
3 weeks ago
desultory01

I once had an ant colony. The queen died, and then the rest followed suit in a couple of months. I like the vids Stim, gl to you.


R403981
3 weeks ago
Livingston

hey shitforbrains, quit blaming me for injustices done in the world.

ummm and by that you mean injustices done that you PAY FOR AND SUPPORT WHICH YOU COULD EASILY AVOID IF YOU LEARNED TO BECOME MINIMALLY SELF SUFFICIENT INSTEAD OF SUCKING OFF TEH SYSTEM? seriously fuckwit, you keep cowering from all this… you don’t like the “elite” right?

who teh fuck do you buy ya food from then? who you payin’ you taxes to then?

well???

you think I agree with that kind of shit? so I’m to fucking blame because I pay taxes? jesus christ you are pathetic.

please froid, why am i pathetic here on this one?

Fill teh GNN on the details, here, kid. why am i pathetic? because i walked right the fuck away from my jerb at Luca Technologies in Golden CO that paid 55K a year starters, sold my fucking car to a hippie chick who still owes my 800 bones on it, moved to central ‘merika and worked as a nature guide for 8 bucks an hour, exchanged what i knwo from mah graduate education in teh biological sciences from an accredited-type university in teh untied states for spanish lessons with teh locals, taught environmental ed for free, turned the waste oil from teh chicken friers into biodiesel for teh buses for dem kiddies at the CEC school in monteverde?

bro why doncha do a lil bit of investigative werk and come back when ya have sum answers?

fill us all on before dey close da GNN, let em knwo whas up wit the conspiracy.

why the fuck would i fly to austin to talk to a bunch of fuckwits? im kinda busy – my next set of presentations will be dec 7th/8th in San Jose Costa Rica. i am missing the chance to speak at a conference in chico cali with JENSEN as a keynote speaker in early nov to work here, why teh fuck would i fly to visit shithole TX?

ja did ya ome wirk nah didn’t cha bro?

Post Modified: 10/28/09 17:43:01

R403983
3 weeks ago
Namaste_Rich

I once had an ant colony. The queen died, and then the rest followed suit in a couple of months.

He could see she was unable
So she ran into the bedroom
She was struck down, It was her doom


R403984
3 weeks ago
Truthcansuk

Shift – only the world is dictated by ecosystemic parameters and limits, not penile ones.

Are you sure about that? Because we’ve been shitting where we eat for quite some time and we’re all still here…

Ecosystemic parameters and limits are fun things to discuss, because like unicorns, Noah’s Ark and Floyd’s logic bone, no one knows where they are. There might not, in fact, be limits. Life exists in volcanoes, on the bottom of the ocean and in your butt. Seriously, I’m talking about bacteria. Don’t get so uptight!


R403985
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

we’ve been shitting where we eat for quite some time and we’re all still here

that’s because shit is fertilizer.

Ecosystemic parameters and limits are fun things to discuss, because like unicorns, Noah’s Ark and Floyd’s logic bone, no one knows where they are.

that’s not true at all. we know exactly where it is. it’s at the point that we, or any species, are consuming more “resources” than the natural world can sustain without being damaged on a scale that it cannot sustainably recuperate from on a perpetual basis.

Life exists in volcanoes, on the bottom of the ocean and in your butt.

and none of them exist outside of the parameters i just mentioned. they all have sources of energy and if they use more than the source can sustain they are fundamentally and terminally unsustainable.


R403992
3 weeks ago
Namaste_Rich

that’s not true at all. we know exactly where it is. it’s at the point that we, or any species, are consuming more “resources” than the natural world can sustain without being damaged on a scale that it cannot sustainably recuperate from on a perpetual basis.

Nope.

Oxymoron.

Try again.


R403994
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

okay well not on a grand scale. hell, the sun will eventually burn out and all life dependent on solar energy will be gone. citing conservation of energy is meaningless because although energy cannot be created or destroyed but rather only transformed, most life forms depend on very specific forms of energy. and citing perpetual motion as if that somehow means what i was saying about being sustainable within ecosystemic niches isn’t true is also pretty meaningless. me try again? heh.


R403995
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

oink oink!


R403996
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

why the fuck would i fly to austin to talk to a bunch of fuckwits? im kinda busy – my next set of presentations will be dec 7th/8th in San Jose Costa Rica. i am missing the chance to speak at a conference in chico cali with JENSEN as a keynote speaker in early nov to work here, why teh fuck would i fly to visit shithole TX?

I’d film you and put it on teh interwebs. No grant money necessary, I’d just git r done for free. As long as you didn’t enviro-tard out, I’d be real respectful about the whole thing.


R403997
3 weeks ago
Namaste_Rich

me try again? heh.

Yes, Mr. Molotov, try and try again!


R403998
3 weeks ago
Namaste_Rich

R403999
3 weeks ago
ShiftShapers

how does any of that justify using more resources than the land base can immediately sustain?


R404000
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

how does any of that justify using more resources than the land base can immediately sustain?

cite plz. please include information about other dimensions and possibilities of reality.


R404001
3 weeks ago
Truthcansuk

Shift – that’s not true at all. we know exactly where it is. it’s at the point that we, or any species, are consuming more “resources” than the natural world can sustain without being damaged on a scale that it cannot sustainably recuperate from on a perpetual basis.

Unless you know how many resources that would be then no, it’s not not true at all, and we really don’t know ‘exactly’ where it is. And unless you are willing to guess as to how much damage this blue ball can take before it gives up, or at what point “the natural world” (god, but that phrase irritates me no end…) decides we’ve taken the last tree we’re allowed to take, then you’re just being silly trying to inject words like ‘exactly’ into this.

Shift – and none of them exist outside of the parameters i just mentioned. they all have sources of energy and if they use more than the source can sustain they are fundamentally and terminally unsustainable.

Or they switch to different resources…

On Edit:

how does any of that justify using more resources than the land base can immediately sustain?

Who in the world said it did, Shift?

Post Modified: 10/28/09 21:19:46

R404002
3 weeks ago
Namaste_Rich

Not who, but what.


R404030
3 weeks ago
sisyphus

i am missing the chance to speak at a conference in chico cali with JENSEN as a keynote speaker in early nov to work here

too bad. I would have bought you a drink


R404041
3 weeks ago
Truthcansuk

Who was it we assigned to keep track of how many lawsuits have started with Sisyphus offering to buy someone a drink again?

I have a 7 jotted down in his file, but that was from before he became ‘Angry Sisyphus.’ It’s gotta be up near 15 by now…

Post Modified: 10/29/09 06:14:26

R404046
3 weeks ago
Livingston

too bad. I would have bought you a drink

motherfucking dammit, i like drinks. dude, jensen is staying with my friend Cameron – i will PM you and get you in touch if you want a place to crash in Chico.

I’d film you and put it on teh interwebs. No grant money necessary, I’d just git r done for free. As long as you didn’t enviro-tard out, I’d be real respectful about the whole thing.

froid you’re completely out of your gourd man.
if you want to investigate the values and lifestyles of scientists studying climate change/the environment YOU NEED TO PULL UP YOUR DIAPER ANDGET R DONE.” go to a couple universities and conduct interviews, look online for presentations and events. its really fucking easy. get a decent size sample (that’s teh science way!) – talk to male and female PhD’s, check and see if they are reptiles and report back to teh GNN with teh scoop.

or froid, if you want to have me talk you raise the funds to fly me to Austin and give a speech. i don’t mind sleeping in the gutter to save $ for the hotel but i will need a steady and reliable supply of booze.
i might kick you in the nuts, too, when i meet you. no offense, its just one of those things that should happen.
start fundraising!

heh TCS that would be a good drinkin night – Angry Sisyphus matches shots with Angry Livingston. hmmm… that could be really entertaining.


R404051
3 weeks ago
remarcus

or purely pathetic. depends on your perspective and who is serving up the shots…


R404070
3 weeks ago
Dilated_Rebel

“I mean, what about highly advanced aliens with more advanced energy sources than earth humans are currently using?”

Lolz, pure gold.

“I’ve probably blogged more Alex Jones material on this site than anyone else”

And you’ve received plenty of ‘respect’ for it.

“Do you think Alex Jones is not fighting corrupt policies Shifty? You idiots that smear Alex Jones are pathetic. Alex is the leading force in the alternative media and is having an enormous impact.

Floyd, you’re mumbling. Take AJ’s rod out of your mouth so you can catch a breath of fresh air, sheesh.

“whether intentionally or not you are operating in direct contradiction to what is good for the United States and free humanity with your disgusting promotion of violent acts”

Class collaboration huh? By definition, its fascist.


R404072
3 weeks ago
Dilated_Rebel

“ if a scientist you think is saying something important is speaking in Austin, let me knwo and I’ll go film the presentation and put it on the web”

It finally all makes sense, the whole illogical arguments, the abusrd paranoia, the support for AJ, the white nationalism, all of it makes sense.

Floyd is Texan, go fuckin figure.


R404080
3 weeks ago
variable

I mean, what about highly advanced aliens with more advanced energy sources than earth humans are currently using?

as long as we’re speculating you might have a look at the beginning of revelation space or chindi

and Jensen promotes the bombing of infrastructure as some sort of a step in the right direction doesn’t he?

this country has been doing that for centuries and now we have the ability to take it worldwide. no electricity or running water for you brown peoples — but here — have some depleted uranium and high explosive democracy snacks!

Premise Two: Traditional communities do not often voluntarily give up or sell the resources on which their communities are based until their communities have been destroyed. They also do not willingly allow their landbases to be damaged so that other resources—gold, oil, and so on—can be extracted. It follows that those who want the resources will do what they can to destroy traditional communities.

Premise Three: Our way of living—industrial civilization—is based on, requires, and would collapse very quickly without persistent and widespread violence.

Premise Four: Civilization is based on a clearly defined and widely accepted yet often unarticulated hierarchy. Violence done by those higher on the hierarchy to those lower is nearly always invisible, that is, unnoticed. When it is noticed, it is fully rationalized. Violence done by those lower on the hierarchy to those higher is unthinkable, and when it does occur is regarded with shock, horror, and the fetishization of the victims. i.e. horseshit!! you losers that promote violence as some kind of solution make me sick. you are equating self-defense with bombings and arson and petty street violence. very shallow. not wise at all.

never mind the country is still bombing the fuck all out of everything for “self defense”—fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here. perhaps you could clarify the difference for my simple, addle-witted uneducated mind.

You can’t, and won’t, stop civilisation.

no, but it goes right off the cliff and lands down by all the other failed civilizations

You’ve swallowed that hook line and stinker just like the man-made global warming lie.

don’t be silly! do teh maff! reptilians + global warming = they’re geoengineering this bitch into a herpetarium!

so every civilization will always collapse everywhere forever. ok. you’re really smart.

if history is any indicator… yes

Cite plz. Oh wait that’s just envirotard speculation….your specialty!

wow. speechless… wait… what about highly advanced aliens with more advanced energy sources than earth humans are currently using? They’re most likely out there somewhere enjoying their civilizations just fine.

only the world is dictated by ecosystemic parameters and limits, not penile ones.

oh, teh weather oracle would argue otherwise

Post Modified: 10/29/09 18:47:01

R404081
3 weeks ago
Livingston

oh i love this thread so much

so every civilization will always collapse everywhere forever. ok. you’re really smart.

if history is any indicator… yes

that’s right, kiddies/froid, it turns out every civilization collapses. its almost as if the idea of civilization – to expand ceaselessly in a materially limited world – was unsustainable

whoa… who woulda thunk that you’d run out of stuff on a planet with only so much stuff… crazy

hey froid, i knwo you’re not a fan of teh science but i has an experiment for you: take some bacteria and smear it on a plate of agar in a petri dish and keep it in a closed container for a while… something amazing and wonderful happens – they thrive! wow wee! success! they are doin’ fuckin’ great! lots and lots of bacteria! but…but… over time something diffrnt happens… something sad... as the bacteria make energy they put off stinky gases… and they use alllllllll the energy right up…. and then… and then…

and then they all fucking die.
try it a bunch of fucking times. its like repeatable and empirical and shit. they always fuckin die.

it almost as if those bacteria…or any other organism not reflectively aware of its nature and the nature of its environment (hack! cough! civilized humans! cough! cough!) is doomed to extinction…

what’re the differences between a single strain of bacteria stuck for a few days in a closed petri dish and a single strain of mutating bacteria stuck on a materially limited biogeochemical system (a planet “earth” for instance) for 3.85 billion years of life?

Post Modified: 10/29/09 19:38:09

R404088
3 weeks ago
remarcus

what’re the differences between a single strain of bacteria stuck for a few days in a closed petri dish and a single strain of mutating bacteria stuck on a materially limited biogeochemical system (a planet “earth” for instance) for 3.85 billion years of life?

trick question? i’d venture to say it would be uber advanced, alien, chain-smoking, shapeshifting reptiles with a penchant for ingesting the fermenting remains and enslaving anthropo-morphs to their evil, belching ends

its way fucked up, dude.

Post Modified: 10/29/09 21:42:00

R404093
3 weeks ago
aganunitsi

Reading this thread has got me all wishing civilization wouldn’t end.

Well, I guess it depends on perspective. From an individual level, civilization never ended for some. My dead grandmother lived with civilization all her days, like mucho others have and will. The bitchin’ starts when everyone realizes it’s going to end for them, and like, soon. Peeps get twitchy.

Will civilization end for me? Most of the time I don’t give a fuck. That nerve’s been rubbed raw.


R404095
3 weeks ago
mancer

Call me dumb if you like, but I get paid large sums of money for using my mind, so I don’t really get worried by that.

When I say ‘you won’t end civ’, then you try to show that others cultures have died off, I say, ‘take a look around, most of the planet is civ, so dying cultures hasn’t stopped the end result’.

In addition, it takes a major, major impact to kill a culture.

And finally, I agree things are wrong and I’d like to see an alternative, but no one has told me how to end:civ and retain the arts and sciences.

As I said before, I don’t want to sit in a paddock chewing grass and praying to a fictional sungod. There has to be a better option then going back to apeism.

Tell me what that is ?


R404096
3 weeks ago
remarcus

aganunitisi, civilization as defined by industrial, capital driven, resource consuming, usury and exploitation has to end immediately if there is any chance for survival of the diversity and vitality of LIFE itself

maybe you need to define civilization as cooperation and a knowing respect of fertility and health and the way to cultivate that.


R404097
3 weeks ago
remarcus

for floyd…

sorry liv, even on a slow connect, it will be worth waiting for

Post Modified: 10/29/09 22:57:31

R404099
3 weeks ago
Livingston

trick question? i’d venture to say it would be uber advanced, alien, chain-smoking, shapeshifting reptiles with a penchant for ingesting the fermenting remains and enslaving anthropo-morphs to their evil, belching ends

no trick homie – basic evolution – mutate or die. ow! i think i just got my slogan for when i become the world’s #1 ecofascist global green gansta… mutate or die, biatch! wha… wha… motherfukin’ Funktuated equilibrium sucka! oh man that’s only going to be funny to a couple folks out there… tough crowd…


R404100
3 weeks ago
Livingston

And finally, I agree things are wrong and I’d like to see an alternative, but no one has told me how to end:civ and retain the arts and sciences.

simple: non-growth, non-hierarchical social organizational structures like Jeff Vail’s Rhizome theory or John Robb’s Resilient Communities. shift values, evolve consciously, grow your own food, weed, and brew your own beer. prepare to defend your resources through open source insurgencies 4 gen warfare, leverage non-state actors, make friends with people who grow their own food and make EMPS and HERFs.


R404101
3 weeks ago
remarcus

wtf is an EMP and a HERF?


R404102
3 weeks ago
mancer

^ Yeah, simple :)


R404104
3 weeks ago
remarcus

fucking acronyms


R404106
3 weeks ago
mancer

I meant to point at Livingstone’s post, not yours, remarcus, sorry for the mix up.


R404109
3 weeks ago
remarcus

whatever

Post Modified: 10/30/09 00:16:25

R404111
3 weeks ago
mancer

with all due respect Livingstone, I’d like to take a look at some of those points.

don’t get me wrong, i am not having a go at any of it, i want to debate this issue and find a way through. but i still see some holes, so this is why i question the method to get to the result.

And then, is the result really the outcome we would want/expect ?

I’ve read some of what you are doing Livingston and I do wish I could be apart of some of it. But circumstances leave me elsewhere for now, at least it gives me another perspective.

non-growth:
nice thought. there are culture/regional/global issues, you need organisation, contraception, will, maybe even a flu virus :)

non-hierarchical social organizational structures:
i kinda think it’s just the nature of the universe to be hierarchical.
from a galaxy, to it’s stars and their planets and moons.
The animal kingdom is abundant with hierarchical systems.
Humans won’t shake it to any massive extent(thanks mum and dad).

shift values, evolve consciously:
okay, cool. i do think this is helpful, may even be the key.
the issue i do have is apathy (or confinement) of people ‘en masse’.
the routines get dug in. most people i talk with go silent when i talk/ask about issues in this (type of) thread.

grow your own food, weed, and brew your own beer:
nice. although land allocation and/or sharing/trading and variation are just some things that come to mind here. oh, and time ..

prepare to defend your resources through open source insurgencies:
are yep.. there we have it .. almost back to what was the problem – violence, war. my stick is bigger then your stick, so i’ll take that land and food of yours.

so, what get’s my vote ? – shift values.
all the other options tend to involve an almost impossible task.

like, who cares what maybe causing global climate change – it is happening. If it can be used to change people’s thinking toward a more ecofriendly civilisation then that’s a great shift of values. it may be too late, but well, we tried.

there could be a discussion on how to shift values – but that’s another story. for me, taking down dams is not the way. stopping strip mining is.

enough, i’ve said enough. just curious, tis all.


R404133
3 weeks ago
Trainspotter

it may be too late, but well, we tried.

Not yet we haven’t.

taking down dams is not the way. stopping strip mining is.

Taking down dams and stopping stip mining are equivalent. Both dams and mining share a common goal insofar as they contribute to the input of the industrial process. And while the dam may seem static compared to the active process of strip mining, it is still an ongoing destructive force. Massive preliminary destruction followed by continuous degradation of surrounding systems. Keywords; irrigation, salt, soil, salmon.

The destruction brought by the dam may be less apparent in an immediate sense, but it is still very real. Taking it down is still the only way to stop it.


R404138
3 weeks ago
Livingston

rem – i will fill in more later – i gotta go work this morning. i would appreciate your insight. i’ve been discussing some ideas with Jeff Vail and will be seeking to apply them here – read up on his stuff – A theory of Power, rhizome, and so on – to get a drift of what we’re into. don’t forget what is going on here WE do not actually have to do that much – the compounding pressures of economic collapse, climate change, wars for resources, environmental destruction, so on will provide the social pressure for mass paradigm shift. and/or the civilized will just die. either way they are gone.

I’ve read some of what you are doing Livingston and I do wish I could be apart of some of it. But circumstances leave me elsewhere for now, at least it gives me another perspective.

spend some time reading john robbs blog too
globalguerrillas.typepad.net

EMP is electromagnetic pulse device – an explosive is rigged so that when it blows up it sends out a pulse of electromagnetic waves which destroy all electronics.

some info

HERF is high emissions radio frequency – take apart a microwave and use the parts to create a directional weapon that fries electronics.

herf

of course i have no idea nor interest in such things, as they might be considered acts of terrorism by the silly uniformed constables of the law.

for informational purposes only

do not hold in hand

light fuse and get away


R404140
3 weeks ago
Livingston

rome fell to dirty drunk barbarians

the pharaohs of Egypt lost their 1000+ year reign of power to the savage and simple Hyksos

Persia overlooked the barely civilized Greeks
Sardis burned while Darius wondered “who the fuck are the Athenians?”

the most technologically advanced military in history is floundering and over extended. the best minds from US military intelligence are now working not only against the US’s imperialism, but against the very biological fabric from which hierarchical civilizations evolved.

the world is about to get slammed by the forces of global change – no nation state or organization is prepared to deal with events of this nature. loyalties will switch from governance structures to primary communities, family, and ideological compatriots.

it should be a party.


R404143
3 weeks ago
Trainspotter

the world is about to get slammed by the forces of global change

If you have a second, like… right BEFORE said slam, let us know… Please.

Party?


R404151
3 weeks ago
FloydAnderson

or froid, if you want to have me talk you raise the funds to fly me to Austin

hell no I ain’t raising money for your sorry ass, col. doomsday!


R404152
3 weeks ago
Dilated_Rebel

Hey Liv, do you think that somehow industrial society and civilization can change their dispositions into a sustainable, eco-friendly, growth economy that can provide everyone needs (and many of our wants too)?

I always like to think we can, but then you crush my spirits. Lulz. Seriously tho, I feel we are at a cross-road for industrial civilization. Either it reforms, relinquishes power and seizes to exist peacefully or catastrophic collapse can be expected. Or as an ecological/evolutionary scientist would say, ‘evolve or die.’

Post Modified: 10/30/09 14:34:28

R404198
3 weeks ago
remarcus

i rather like the focused microwave device. is that illegal?

dilated, youre joking right? industrialization is the crux of the problem. we dont need no stinking assembly line, heirarchal structures to keep the masses in slavery to the production and consumption of resources for the ends of profit and capitalization.

uhm… we dont need a fucking corporation store feeding us their food and a bunch of extraneous shit we dont need.

Either it reforms, relinquishes power and seizes to exist peacefully or catastrophic collapse can be expected.

yes. thats the gist of all of it. the end


R404208
3 weeks ago
Dilated_Rebel

“ industrialization is the crux of the problem”

I agree that kapital driven, privatized industry is a problem. Which is why Im asking Liv if he thinks industrial society can change its disposition dispositions into a sustainable, eco-friendly, growth economy. That being said, Im not necessarily against industrialization. Its made our privileged lives rather comfortable dont ya think? But are we (proletariats) smart enough to somehow takeover the plantation, drown the landowners in their own synthetic fertilizers, burn the house down, and build a new soceity founded on new principles and values?

“we dont need no stinking assembly line, heirarchal structures to keep the masses in slavery to the production and consumption of resources for the ends of profit and capitalization.”

Agreed, kapitalist ideology must cease to exist. But I happen to think that industrialization can co-exist with a sustainable worker-run economy with no need for a supposed kapital incentive. Maybe Im just an optimist, but to be honest, deep down inside, I know it wont change on its own, it’ll probably take some arm twisting. Thats why those links Liv provided are awesome.

Post Modified: 10/31/09 01:40:49

R404233
3 weeks ago
Livingston

that’s ok froid the idea that your retarded alien-fearing ass could raise the amount of funds needed to keep me drunk enough to return to the US and talk to a bunch of you fucktards is absurd.

i gotta jam
peas


R404238
3 weeks ago
johnnycivil


R404285
3 weeks ago
Livingston

Hey Liv, do you think that somehow industrial society and civilization can change their dispositions into a sustainable, eco-friendly, growth economy that can provide everyone needs (and many of our wants too)?

many people already have – intentional communities/conscious communities are popping up everywhere:

Intentional Community is an inclusive term for ecovillages, cohousing, residential land trusts, communes, student co-ops, urban housing cooperatives, alternative communities, and other projects where people strive together with a common vision.

industrial collapse is going to be a pretty slow process for most places (several decades). complex societies will emerge which are adaptive to conditions of 21st century global change.

d reb – don’t let the apocalypse crush your spirits, man! the way out will emerge.

rem – focused microwave weapons are fun for kids of all ages. legal smegal. don’t get caught, if you do be prepared to get uncaught. ;)


R404289
3 weeks ago
GWHunta

Taking down dams and stopping stip mining are equivalent. Both dams and mining share a common goal insofar as they contribute to the input of the industrial process. And while the dam may seem static compared to the active process of strip mining, it is still an ongoing destructive force. Massive preliminary destruction followed by continuous degradation of surrounding systems.

The only real upside of dams is the electricity some of them have produced and the cumulative impact they’ve had in slowing the rate of sea level rise.

The downside is that dams are the primary tool used by societies for impoundment of water resources for irrigation of intensively cultivated agricultural land and as such are the principal component of anthropogenic global warming aka climate change.

Damming Evidence

Civilization doesn’t need to end, nor should the end be promoted and violent means be justified.

Civilization needs revision and humanity to become more fully civilized.

It’s the lack of respect for the rights and needs of others, including non-human beings on the planet that is central to what is wrong with our “global” society.

We have our niche here.

Now that we’ve successfully achieved the technical capability to seriously damage the global ecosystem, we’re well on the way to attaining the capability necessary to maintain and possibly even improve its current condition.

(No herf guns or EMP weapons necessary.)

Peace,

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